Sounds That You Want to Hold Forever: A Conversation With Man Lee

By Violet Stoeker

Violet: Ok, here we go! Sam, I’ve been listening to your guys’ music, and I love it. I love the grunge-y vibe and how your first record came together – so awesome, and I’m so excited for you to play at our Paper Moon show! I want to start by asking you how Man Lee came to be; what led you to want to start making music?

Sam: Thank you! I’ll speak for myself at least – I was always the kid in the backseat of the car writing down lyrics or a tune. Anything that would pop into my mind; I was always doodling on stuff. 

Violet: I was also always doodling on stuff! I’m a writer, so when I was little, I was always writing my own children’s books with very specific plots and drawings. I was obsessed.

Sam: Totally! But when you were little, did you imagine that you were, like, the next greatest American novelist? Because I was always like, “I’m the next great American pop star!”

Violet: Oh my gosh, I love that. And yes, I totally did.

Sam: But now, I don’t write pop music at all, and that’s okay! The way pop music and rock music have seemingly overlapped more over the past couple of decades is really encouraging. There’s so much of that pop ethos that can be infused in rock music and vice versa, so it wasn’t always my dream to be a pop star, but for 8-year-old me, it was a possibility. Otherwise, I always had the ability to catch a melody. And I think everyone does, if you have the brain space. However, it wasn’t until I was getting closer to 30 that I was encouraged more, mostly by my writing partner, to create shape for these ideas. We encouraged each other, really. After that, we started writing our first record!

Violet: And what were you modeling that after? Like, for me, I guess I did always expect that I would just be famous for my writing at some point. Who was your favorite artist then that you were modeling yourself after when you were little?

Sam: Definitely Mandy Moore. 

Violet: Oh, that makes so much sense!

Sam: But then she went on to do so many other things; she showed us that we can all evolve. The 90’s were a pretty fun time to grow up in. 

Violet: Totally. And how did you guys meet, you and your writing partner/bandmate?

Sam: Well, we are also married! But all of this happened before we got married.

Violet: Oh! I didn’t know that!

Sam: Yes! We got together as romantic partners and always admired each other’s musicality, but it wasn’t until later in our relationship that we had a vision of what our music could be; after that, we made steps toward making our ideas real.

Violet: Wow! I didn’t know you guys were together, but that now adds a whole new layer to your music. What a fun adventure to embark on together! I want to ask you more about this collaborative process, but first, what are your top albums that really inspired the sound for Man Lee?

Sam: Wow, that’s hard. I will say, I’m just a 90’s girlie, so I’ll start with Cibo Matto. I basically love all their albums, but Viva! La Woman is probably my number one.

Violet: I love Cibo Matto! That record is awesome.

Sam: Probably Deerhoof also. The song that got me hooked was “Super Duper Rescue Heads!” and my favorite album of theirs is Breakup Song. Then, probably Hellogoodbye, they have a song called “Zombies! Aliens! Vampires! Dinosaurs!” that I love. Then, lastly, I’d say Grand Slam by Spiderbait. 

Violet: Wow, I’ve never heard of them! I’m writing that down.

Sam: Those aren’t my all-time-favorites, but they’re influences for sure. 

Violet: That’s just as important. I have five million bands that I could talk about, and it’s always so overwhelming to narrow them down. 

Sam: Yes, totally. 

Violet: So now, tell me, what is Man Lee? 

Sam: Well, the name is just our names combined – it’s the only way we could agree on a name. We were together for so long beforehand, and we were always thinking, “If we had a band, what would our band name be?” It took literal years. But then there was one night when I woke up at 3 AM and was like, “I’ve got it!” And it’s funny because, in the end, it was just a combination of our names, ‘Reichman’and ‘Lee’. I thought it was emblematic of how we view the world, which is like, you know, mocking ego constantly and flailing against the toxic masculinity that surrounds us all. In the end, I think it’s more emblematic of our ethos than having a fun story behind the name. 

Violet: I totally agree! I think that’s super cool. My parents did a similar thing with my last name – instead of hyphenating their last names, they just mixed them to create a new, random name. There’s ethos there, too!

Sam: Wow, that’s cool! At least they have taste; it sounds like it could have gone in so many different directions. 

Violet: So true! I’m very thankful that they got somewhat creative with it. Speaking of creative, can I ask you about your creative process a little bit more? What does the music-making process look like for you guys from start to finish?

Sam: I was actually just talking about this with a friend who is an illustrator. They were talking about their process, saying, “Who knew if I did color and line work at the same time, my work would come out more pure and raw than if I did my line work all at once and tried to color it in after?” And I feel that very deeply. I feel like I can tell the difference, at least in my own work, when the essence of something is created in one fell swoop versus piecing and collaging things together. But, because of the nature of having a full-time job and also writing music, I have to reconcile those two parts of my life; sometimes it’s inevitable that it’s going to be a bit of a patchwork. However, from song inception to finishing, I would say it’s different all the time. Sometimes I start by messing around with instruments I can’t play, which is so helpful, and sometimes a melody will just pop into my head while walking down the street. It’s truly different every time. Sometimes Tim will come to me with something he made on a synth, which he also doesn’t play, but it’s more about recognizing… I don’t know… 

Violet: But that’s so fair! How do you even verbalize it? How do you put it into words? This speaks to my next question, which asks about what creative challenges you encounter when making music, but I guess that’s also hard, because so much of the music-making process is just about it happening. From an outsider position, when I speak to musicians, it seems like there’s always an element of magic that comes in somewhere, and they usually have the same answer; it’s different every time. 

Sam: It for sure is. I just fuck around until there’s a sound that takes hold of me, and I try not to let that sound go. Sometimes it’s just a little messed-up chord or an out-of-time drum progression, but some sounds really stick with me; sounds that I want to hold in my body forever and then see where they take me. The process usually never starts with lyrics.

Violet: Wow, interesting! I feel like, to an average music listener, or maybe this is just me, writing the lyrics first makes the most sense. Actually, I do think that’s just me. The actual music-making part is usually where my creativity stops – my brain just cannot convert language into something musical like that. Kind of like the magic element I was talking about!

Sam: You just have to keep going until you unlock it!

Violet: Yes! And in so many ways, music is its own language. It takes time to master. 

Sam: And you just have to take the time, or, rather, give yourself permission to take time. You can’t rush, because if that piece ends up on the album and you’re still not sure how those words sound, it’s gonna ruin your life. 

Violet: I can’t even imagine!

Sam: And that’s what I’ve had to do with our second record, which we’re writing now. I didn’t give myself the grace to do that the first time around, and now I have to remind myself to give these songs the time and space to breathe; to allow any gaps or holes to be naturally filled through lived experience, or conversations I have with my friends, rather than force something to be where it doesn’t belong. There are definitely songs we have that sound good, or feel good, but I know that if I had given it another year…

Violet: Wow, a year!

Sam: Well, it depends. All of the songs on the last record took a minimum of two years to take shape. 

Violet: Holy moly. That’s truly fascinating. 

Sam: It could genuinely be a line that you read in a book ten years ago; something that stays with you and becomes a line for something you’re writing later. For me, songwriting could easily take ten years. 

Violet: I find that, a lot of the time, I get really bad writer’s block and then I sit down and start writing and it’s like pulling a string – you start, and it just keeps coming and coming and coming. Does that ever happen to you when writing music? Or is it a more fragmented process?

Sam: Usually I can find a flow up until a point, and then there will be one little gap. It’s probably why I’ve never finished a poem. But the place where Tim and I find our flow is in the generating part – a place where we can put everything and just work from that. It feels pretty boundless. 

Violet: I also have a bad habit of being hyper-critical of my work. Are you the same?

Sam: It’s more like checking that the feeling is right and that I’m being 100% truthful at every turn, rather than just making sure the sound is good. 

Violet: I really like your use of the word “truthful.” I think that lots of artists try and get by with making music that feels good, and the listener can always tell when everything else is secondary. Being genuine is really important. 

Sam: Yes, it really is.

Violet: And what is the most rewarding part of making music together, you and Tim?

Sam: Oh, that’s easy. I’ll speak for him, since I know what he would say. I think we’re getting to a place where collaboration is the most joyful part of making music, beyond being in our band. It gets more and more exciting as time goes on. 

Violet: And you guys are collaborators through it all! Life, music, etc. 

Sam: Right! It’s fun and necessary and so incredibly helpful to have someone to collaborate with beyond that home/work space or when we’re practicing with our whole band. Tim and I really appreciate being able to go to our band or our producer with work and asking them how it will be received; it makes me a better writer, and I’m always approaching things differently in that collaborative space. Overall, I’m looking forward to having more co-writing opportunities; we’ve met so many cool artists over the past few years, and I’m excited to work with them, even beyond this next record we’re writing. 

Violet: That’s so fun, I can’t wait to see what comes of it!

Sam: I wish I had known sooner – in college, I didn’t know you could just make things with your friends! I mean, I do now!

Violet: Free will is awesome. And once you realize you have it, it’s like, holy shit! I can do anything! It’s amazing to collaborate, especially artistically, with people. Like, I didn’t know you lived in this corner of the universe, too!

Sam: Yes! It’s the best.

Violet: It really is. Okay, last question I will bother you with – what song are you the most excited to play at the upcoming Paper Moon show?

Sam: Let me look at the setlist! Half of what we’re playing is from our last record, Hefty Wimpy, and half is new stuff. So a good mix of old and new songs. 

Violet: Exciting!

Sam: I think I’m most excited for a song we’re gonna play from our new record, called “Ten Dollar Horse.” 

Violet: I can’t wait to hear it! And I’m equally as excited to hear the music from your new album. Sam, thank you so much for joining me for this interview!

Sam: Thank you, Violet! This was so fun!

Man Lee will be playing this Friday, May 15, at Purgatory in Brooklyn for Paper Moon Radio Station’s third live event! You can listen to their music anywhere you stream.